Friday 24 December 2010

Merry Christmas


Gertie wishes all her Blitzan family- and anyone who knows her- a merry christmas and a happy and successful new year


Hi everyone Norman Troy and I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a very happy and Prosperous New Year.

Thursday 23 December 2010

I usually make a fool of myself at least once a year and this is one time. Please enjoy our best wishes for Christmas from Grania and I, and Tallulah & Tansy who have, as you can see discovered new talents!! Ali I am not sure you're going to approve!!!!

Monday 20 December 2010

Sunday 19 December 2010




A Happy Christmas to you and your family Ali from Grania & Loudon and Tallulah & Tansy. 1st pic is of Tansy showing how to keep your nose warm in the snow!!

Saturday 18 December 2010

Woohoo! Snow in Bristol at last!



My boys, getting in the festive spirit.........

Wednesday 15 December 2010

Ziggy's First Season

Ziggy has come into season at 10 months exactly; I'd be interested to know if any of her sisters have been in season already. So far she seems pretty unfazed, but we are only into the first few days. I'm somewhat concerned about being able to exercise her next week since we will be in London for Christmas and there are so many dogs in park. If anyone has any suggestions of how to exercise without going out I'd love to hear them!

Thursday 9 December 2010

Hello for the Blitzan home


HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO LEAHS LAST LITTER
The 'Leah Litter' and my beautiful Diva, (Sh Ch Blitzan Leahs Stunner JW) - 7 Years old today, can't believe she is a Veteran already, where does the time go?


Morning everyone, Life is as busy as ever so excuse my prolonged absence. Well we have been snowed up for a while, not anywhere as bad up people 'up North' but bad enough, that's the trouble with living down back lanes and up high! The first pictures were taken yesterday, yep freezing fog, and my god it was freezing. Put it this way, Diva came out the door for a walk and decided it was just too cold so she turned around, ran back in and straight in her bed by the fire, she hasn't wanted a walk for the last couple of days and only nips out for the shortest of time when very desperate! Diva by name and all that!!!
These pics were taken a week ago when the snow first fell. Tetra loves it and does wonderful snow angels!!!

Mr Darcy plots his next move!

Bree- Well I would make a joke about being a Munster cross Lizard, but feel her tongue troubles have a lot to do with getting it stuck on ice!!! Not been the same since!!
Here come the girls....
My Yetti - Maddie

Stuck, Maddie comes to an abrupt halt!!
I hope you have all been keeping warm and not too stuck in the snow.
To all those waiting for Prima, I'm afraid she's not in season yet, but sure it wont be long, all the signs are there!!!! I will let you all know as soon as she begins her season.

It seems I have not been getting emails through, some come but also some don't seem to, so if you have emailed me and not received a reply please give me a shout again as I always reply even if it takes a day or two to get back to you I will always reply, so if I haven't please try again. Thanks.
Gorgeous pictures on here and loving the help Peter provides, such a great help Pete you are so good to us all xxxx





Monday 6 December 2010

Munsterlander in the mist


Very frosty here in the Wye Valley today.

Thursday 11 November 2010

Hi Penny, If you want to contact me my e-mail is: moorgun@ntlworld.com
I'm sure we can arrange something to suit,
Peter

training

Hi Peter,

I'm still very interested in training, would it be possible to have more details about individual work with you ? I think this blog is has probably had enough of the subject by now !! Can I get in touch with you somehow?
Many Thanks.

Wednesday 10 November 2010

Just catching up.
Congratulations to Sharon, Jim & Louis on passing the KC Gold Award, very well done, a great achievement.
Some very interesting reading on training, I have enjoyed all the posts.
Great picture from Canada a fantastic view, and what a wonderful vantage point to take the picture from.
Hope everyone out there is enjoying their Munsterlanders, we have had quite a lot of rain recently so back to all the mud, Oh What Joy !!!! Has been fine today, but they still managed to find plenty of muddy puddles.

Monday 8 November 2010

Munsters of Canada


I havent been on the blog for a long, long time. Just like to say hello, and post a picture of Duke and Duchess. Duke is son of Logi and Duchess is Daughter of Leah, Elly May is the Springer. This was taken on a hike I took to the top of the mountain we live on in Kelwona, British Columbia Canada.

Friday 5 November 2010

Hi Peter,
Again, many thanks. I would certainly be interested in hands on education, individually or in a group.Would anyone else like to get involved ?
Whereabouts in the south could it happen, Karen, would you be interested - are you anywhere near the Wiltshire border ?
I'm keen to get Lola trained well enough before the next shooting season, so that I can take her out with some confidence, I'm keen to do what I can for her, myself and the shoot !!
Should we try to get something going via this website ? Could we have some idea of costs etc ?
Happy to give you my home contact details if I'm allowed to here.

Thursday 4 November 2010

Hi Karen & Penny,
I don't know Nick Gregory, but I do know of Hamptworth Estate as I was down there a few weeks ago doing a KC Seminar with the HPRFTA. Whilst I am always available to help with training, I have become slightly sceptical at those wishing to train. In the past there were always voices complaining at the `lack of training'. After several years of listening to this, through the Club and on several blogs etc. I made arrangements using the Swifthouse training ground in Oxford to put on some training sessions, whilst a few took up the opportunity, these were the minority of those that did the complaining, and I was not surprised at the variety of excuses that were forthcoming as to why these people could not make it! I concluded that talking about training from the comfort of your own keyboard is alot different than getting arses into cars and actually make the effort to do it!
Presently I am `buddying' a couple of hprs and their owners, a Britany and a Weim, it does mean I get to see their dogs on their own ground, so I get to see the real problems with all the trimmings, and not just what the owners `think' are the problems. I must say I like this rather than formal group training sessions as its tailor made to the handler and the dog, and they can learn to communicate better with their dog ( handler) as I'm there to `translate', and often this is at the root of most problems. The disadvantage is of course its not cheaper than sharing the cost as a group, but then you may have to have several group sessions before you get to `your' problem! Anyway if a group of you want to get together and do the organising I'm happy to share my know how.
Penny, It sounds like the dog has only a fragile grasp of the sit and you've moved a little too fast before the dog has confidence in the signal. Its all about perception, to you sit means sit, but to the dog it hears the sound and associates it with sit by you, as in teaching the sit you were probably always next to it. Thinking about it, when my puppies are being taught the sit I'm nearly always facing them, which is why this is an easier transition to `distant sits', but I digress!
Rather than trying to achieve distant sits I would concentrate on teaching the dog sit/stay. The dog can gain confidence in the sit by heel ( which is her translation of your sit command) and you can expand it by moving away from the dog whilst its sat. This is also good at getting the raised hand signal for sit into the dogs mind eye, as it can be used to `hold' the dog on the sit as you move away, ( or if the dog breaks the sit, keeping it raised as you move back towards the dog to replace it in the sit, will associate the hand signal to the act of sitting).
There is a lot said in dog training circles about training the dog in ever more demanding environments to further the dogs learning. This is indeed true, but many forget that the dogs perception of your position when giving instructions may also change their understanding of those instructions. The sit/stay is often over looked in this respect as by moving around the dog and at different distances you can both broaden and strengthen various signals to a learned instruction and in so doing build up a young dogs confidence.
You will find that a re occurring theme in my methods of training involve in always looking for positives that can be achieved out of negatives, and also planting seeds in training for something in the future whilst training something in the present.
Remember when teaching a new signal for an action always put the new signal in front of the established signal. i.e. establish the voice `sit'
show the hand signal then say sit
blow the whistle ( hand signal) then say sit
In advance training game flushing becomes the sit signal, which is why the stop whistle needs to be good so that this can be achieved.
Peter

Wednesday 3 November 2010

Hi Peter,
Thankyou so much for all the info - I'm sure we're all hanging onto your every word !!
Above is a photo of Lola and Minden, taken in August, and I can't believe how much she's grown since then !! She's slightly bigger than Minden (black one) now.

The Stop. Again. I'm teaching her the hand signal as well as a verbal sit. When I call sit and give the hand signal as well, ( only in the garden so far, it's quite big so she is some distance away from me - she's too distracted outside) - she looks at me, runs back to me and then sits.
Sort of right - trouble is, when she's on the lead I can't do a distance sit can I? - because she's right next to me - should I be using a long training lead...??!
Any answers would be appreciated. The trouble is, I need the training as much as Lola !
Many Thanks.

Tuesday 2 November 2010

Illy posing

We went on a short trip to the Peak District last weekend, Illy enjoyed exploring the woods surrounding a reservoir and she then went for a nice pub lunch
Peter, do you know Nick Gregory - Hamptworth Gundogs http://www.hamptworthestate.co.uk/Gundogs.asp, where he trains is near The New Forest? Just wondered if he would be able to let us have use of some of the estate grounds for a training event with you, or both of you.

I'm making progress with Mazy, but I'm sure several of us in the South of the country would love to have the opportunity to work with you if you would be willing.

Monday 1 November 2010

Hi Penny,
As a matter of interest I do actually live in Wiltshire, but do not have ground to train on.
No dog is ever to old to train, however as with most things in life habits are harder to break the more established they are, and therefore require a strong resolve from the trainer in order to get to the same level as a dog trained correctly from the word go. I start training the stop the moment the puppy arrives home, as the intention is for it to be an instinctive reaction to the command as this means that the action starts to take place on hearing the command no matter what the dog is doing. The stop and the recall are what I call the only `commands' I use, virtually all others are `instructions'. As commands they , once trained, are non-negotiable and non compliance always results in a negative consequence for the dog. With mine this usually means a long period of lead walking and repetition of training commands and instructions whilst remaining on the lead. It is important however to remember that when training these commands, the actions achieved must always be fun and rewarding for the dog, and this is somewhat confusing for the novice handler, as when to bring in a negative consequence without losing the `fun'. It helps when you know the character and mental thought processes of your dog, and that when your dog does not do what you think it has learnt, its not down to the dog being `rebellious' it is more likely that you have credited it with more ability to learn that it actually possesses!
To ensure everybody is on the same page, I'll reiterate that the STOP is trained as the SIT. By definition a sat dog is stopped, and likewise a sat dog does not need a `stay' as it should not break the sit until you give it its next instruction. I always start to train the sit with a new puppy at feed times, as the puppy is generally in the right position of sitting when waiting for its food which is prepared above its head height. The word sit is given before the dog naturally goes into the sit or is put into the sit, ( I also use the raised hand as a visual signal, but don't use the whistle for sit until the dog is doing sits in the garden as part of another game, often using the hand signal as an aid in this transformation. Its important to realise that my dogs have all three signals for sit, although the whistle becomes the stop, the dogs ears are not concentrating on the distraction during a chase! and therefore is available to me!) When the puppy sits it is rewarded by having its food and thus an association is formed. I can also manipulate this into a learning sequence by removing the food before the puppy reaches it, if it breaks the sit before being told to do so, this makes the puppy focus on you for instructions, and can often reverse the consequences of an overindulge young puppy who may have inadvertently been given a high status.
Once this stage has been achieved, I will often move the puppy into another room at feed time, and with the food down go through the sit, often this will worry the puppy and is a test of its concentration and trust, as well as what it has actually learnt as a signal, ( an older dog will get one of the three to ensure it understands ALL three) A note of caution here is if the puppy sits without a command its not learning the signal its more likely its associating the event!
Once I'm confident in the dogs understanding of the command I start to build in the speed of compliance, again this is reward based, although the reward is very subtle and is in fact the release. i.e. the faster the dog sits the quicker it is released from the sit. From the command being given I count to when the dogs bum is on the ground, I then double it and count this out before I release. If you are consistent with this sooner or later the dog will make the connection, especially if you do not let the dog do anything else except do the sit once the command has been given. If the dog refuses to sit and requires putting in the sit its then returned to lead training, do not make the mistake of repeating the command to get compliance.
An older dog that is use to `free running' has to do several sits on a lead before it is released, and then is tested regularly during its free running with the whistle, any resistance to sit, the ` I'll just finish this sniff before I comply' syndrome, results in being put on the lead and kept on lead stops for the rest of that walk, remember to use any set backs to your advantage, putting the dog on a lead gives you an opportunity to work on heel walk, sits, downs and waits, which all go to keep the dog focus on you. Something else to consider, especially with gundogs, when hunting they like to get there first, so if they have been slow to sit, then if you keep walking whilst you are counting out their release, you will be getting onto the hunting ground first, and you will quickly see a positive result to this technique. Something else to consider is that, unless you are in advance hunting /working, that on release your dog should return to you with the recall so both can be worked on simultaneously, and manipulated and assessed on a day to day basis, just remember to leave any negativity for a poor sit/stop at the point of sit not on the recall which should always be rewarded in a young dog like you have not seen each other for some time,
Do they give up the chase and sit? Well earlier this year, Teal'q was hunting out some scrub on the way home, and he flushed out a roe doe, now we know this doe and I have used her to train him, he is a deer dog after all. But because this doe is use to my dogs being steady, instead of galloping across the field away, she decided to do an idle trot, which meant Teal'q thought his luck was in as he broke cover. By the time I realised what the doe was doing, Teal'q had made good ground and closed the gap to about ten metres, the doe was nearly stopped and turning to watch the dog ( thinking he usually never gave chase!) I hit the stop whistle and he stopped nearly colliding with the deer as he did so, she jumped over the dog (thats how close he was) and then took off. So he's about 90% on the stop, always room for improvement!
Peter

"Stop " training.

Thankyou all, especially munstyman for the incredibly helpful and sound advice about training Munsterlanders. You are so right, - other gun dog owners expect a Munsty to be as easily trained as a Spaniel or Lab and really can't understand that our dogs are not at all the same. It's very frustrating, and I find myself constantly trying to make them understand that Munsterlanders are different - ( usually to no avail !!)
Going back to basics with the stop - please could you tell me how to backtrack to this stage and how to start and work through this area of training. Although Lola is pretty good at coming back to the whistle, she would totally ignore me if a deer was around, sometimes chasing jackdaws in the fields is too much of a temptation as well. She learned to chase seagulls on Cornish beaches in the summer - I was pretty annoyed that I gave her the opportunity. A good STOP would make life a lot easier. Is she too set in her ways (8mths) to retrain ?? and do they honestly give up the chase and sit ??????
I don't suppose Munstyman lives in Wiltshire and gives classes by any chance...........................?
Many many thanks.

Saturday 30 October 2010

Brodie and Louis


Here’s a photo of the boys taken today. Their faces represent their personalities well: Brodie the carefree hooligan and Louis (my 13 month longhair) the more serious boy!
The pair still get on really well together which I’m sure is down to Brodie’s tolerance of Louis puppy behavior.
Louis just passed his KC gold good citizen today, so I’m very pleased with him. I’d have given him a treat but both boys are fast asleep. We were doing stop training to a gunshot today and it’s obviously tired them both out!

Recall etc

Hi all, we too experience somewhat similar challenges with Dodger, he too is 14 months. His recall is normally quite good, but sometimes he is so keen on something he forgets we're there! We shall be practising the stop - although getting Dodger to sit is somewhat of a challenge. We have restricted his free running as such whilst we concentrate on this and have joined our local gundog training club to get more specific training for him.

We went for the first time last week, I got dragged around a bit when Dodger wanted to meet everyone, and he has a lot of learning to do. They've suggested we try some other things to overcome his pulling on lead, so we're trying a slip lead. At 35kg he's a big dog when he wants to pull.

We're also working on him waiting to fetch his toys/training dummy so that every time it's thrown it's not a given that he gets it, nor is it a cue for him to go get it straight away, instead he needs to learn to wait until he is given the command to fetch it.

One other thing we're undertaking is whistle training. Ones are on order from Canine Concepts which he seems to prick his ears up to when we play the sound. We tried all the test ones online, and he seems to show a response to two of them, so we'll see what happens when they arrive.

My hope is by taking him to gundog training and learning those skills and training that it will help him develop further. He seems to be very bored with the standard training in class, so this is a very different approach.

Dodger is our first Munsterlander so we too and working hard to figure out how best to work with him for all of us.

Totverbeller

Hi Helen, this is the term given to the dog which on finding a large wounded animal following a blood trail, stays with the animal and barks drawing the handler to it.
There is also the terms `Tortverweiser' and `Totverweise mit Bringsel'. The first involves the dog running back and forth between the animal and the handler, sometimes taking the handlers arm to `take' them or inform them that they have `found' and thus drawing the handler to the animal. ( This should sound familiar to those of you who are regularly `mouthed' by your Munster) . The second involves training the dog to hold a leather tag in its mouth when it finds the animal, this tag or bringsel is attached to the dogs collar. when the dog returns to the handler with bringsel in its mouth, the handler attaches the tracking line and follows the dog to the animal.
I don't know of any Munster owner ( those that are honest at least) who haven't been a little over awed by the `step up' in dog terms of owning and training a munster compared to `normal' dogs. I know most breeders try to emphasise this fact, but I guess most people don't ever appreciate this advise, as surely a dog is a dog! I come from a background of Labs, Springers and then Cockers so you would think it should of been easy, but even I was way out of my depth with my first Munster, its not so much a steep learning curve, as it is a completely different way of training and understanding, these dogs work WITH you not FOR you, as a partnership you become one, whilst you may have the final say, you still have to justify it to the dog! ( and in their language so they can understand) Just as you want to teach the dog, you have to remember that these dogs are just as willing to teach you....if your willing to learn, the world of a munster is simple and fun but ordered, and there is probably some `secret of life' stuff in there too.
Peter

Good Advice

Thank you Amanda and Elspeth for letting me know I am not the only one who has these difficulties with my munsterlander, it is very comforting.

Many thanks to you too Peter, your advice is extremely informative and full of common sense, the free running has already been curtailed. By the way what is 'tortverbelling'?

Ziggy is my first experience with an HPR so it is a very steep learning curve; we have always had flatcoated retrievers and labs who haven't had a high prey drive and have tended to have laid back personalities whereas Ziggy is always on high alert. My main objective is to have a well-balanced, well-behaved dog so we will keep on working until that happens.

Do keep us posted with Murphy and Ceilidh's progress it's very helpful to know how you and they are dealing with their training.

Friday 29 October 2010

Those having `recall' problems

There is an old lore in gundog training, `never give a command you are not able to enforce!'
Using recall on a dog that is doing its own thing and is effectively out of control ( I'll deal with that later), is just such an occasion. If you think about it all you are doing is teaching the dog to ignore you, even if the dog comes back eventually you can neither correct its slow response or reward its return, as it has returned under its own terms and not to any instruction you have issued. Even if you chase the dog and catch it, you have effectively returned to the dog rather than the other way round, so what does this teach it?
This is why, time and time again I try to instill on owners the importance of the STOP, it should be taught and taught and taught again, a dog should NOT be off a lead if you have not got it `ON THE STOP' as you have not got control of that dog! ( No matter how much you try and convince yourself!) Yes, there are times that even dogs `on the stop' succumb to temptation, after all training the stop requires training it in all `environments' in a steady progression, so you are bound to reach a point where temptation breaks your training point. However being a simple action to command, the dog can be brought back to the point of transgression and corrected quickly and positively re-trained, this is well within the abilities of the dogs understanding, and by re-training in the very environment that was beyond your reached training point, you effectively continue moving forward. Yes it would be wise to take a step (or two) back in `environments' and re-train the stop there over the next few days ( weeks), but you would have at least used the transgression in the most positive manner. Even at this breaking point, a well trained stop may give you an extra second of distraction from the temptation to reassert your authority and take back your control, when the dog was going to break. A second blast on the stop whistle may stop the dog in this period of thought, and whilst this should not be used frequently, ( as it teaches the dog to ignore the first whistle), it can maintain control of the dog.
A well trained stop effectively means the dog sits without thinking about it, the act of sitting at the very least will break the dogs stride and allow the `temptation' to move further away and create a `pause for thought' in the dogs mind, which, if you have the respect of your dog is really all you should need, after all you are the boss, aren't you? You were leading the hunt were you not? You and the dog were communicating through out while it was hunting ( off lead)?
Now for the `out of control' bit. I'm not going to beat around the bush, FREE running is not a RIGHT for the dog, it is something that has to be earned through obedience. Yes we all like to see these dogs running free, and yes they do get obvious pleasure from being able to do it, and yes some of us don't want to be constantly attached to our dogs via a lead! BUT THATS WHY WE TRAIN. By putting a value on free running for the dog, we can give the dog the correct perspective for the whole relationship that we are in. The dog has to learn that everything in its life depends on us, everything has a price, and its a price the dog pays us not the other way around.
I often get the impression that some think my own dogs must lead a very restricted, disciplined life, however this can not be further from the truth. I put the training in early, and establish their boundaries and consistently maintain them, they have more freedom and leeway into mischief because of this! Because I have their respect and they have my trust, in them and their training, they probably experience more freedom than most dogs, and all this because I can train a dog to sit on a blown whistle!
Peter

I missed the bit about yipping, at eight months this dog is far to young to be loose around game, and not being directed/led by the handler. The yipping is out of frustration as it senses are being activated without the mind being shown the purpose. The primary purpose of your dog is to find and POINT the game, for YOU not chase and kill it itself. You need to act quickly before this yipping becomes habitual, or your dog is going to be effectively useless as a gundog. Once again the stop can be used to correct this, both from `cooling' off a `hot' dog and building an understanding of your understanding of the fact that the dog has found game and it has been appreciated. Stopping the chase and building steadiness can also be rewarded at the stop, or punished by returning the dog to the lead and finishing the `hunt' if the dog refused the stop.
Given the post as a whole I would advise curtailing ALL free running until you build the dogs focus on you as there are obvious communication issues that need addressing before you let the dog anywhere near game. The best discipline for this would be concentrating on retrieving and obedience and stay well away from hunting either intentionally or by free running. Barking should never be rewarded except when its tortverbelling.

Recall

Hello, sorry I have not been on for so long, I do read the blog but having lack of time and pictures since my camera is broken I don't really post much. I was reading about Ziggy and it is the exact problems I have had with Ceilidh. Teenage cloth lug symdrome I like to call it. Do you have a favourite toy? I know Karen with Maggie gave me some wonderful advice, she used a ball and for Ceilidh I used a frisbee, infact I used 2 to begin with so we had a relay system to start with. If so try to use it on a good recall as a treat, especially good if your munster does not like treats on walks. Ceilidh could not care less for any treats on a walk. I didn't use it on every recall so she didn't get bored. It took a long time to get it going well but now she is brilliant and I don't take the frisbee on walks very often as she can now manage to do her sniffing and hunting but stay close and recall well, or at the very least stand still and wait for me to catch up while she watches whatever she has found run off. I know that is not ideal but you cannot expect perfect results every time :)
I don't know what your surroundings are like but we live in the countryside and it is packed with wildlife just wandering in the fields and wooded areas where we walk so it has taken some time to get to this point. Good luck!
Ceilidh is very well at the moment, and enjoying having the fields back as her play ground for a while. I really must get a new camera to get some pictures to pop up. Cannot believe she is now 3 aswell, how time flies. Happy belated birthday to all of the truely litter! Hope everyone is well xx

recall problems

Hi Helen,
This all sounds very familiar (quite comforting to know we aren't the only ones!). Murphy is now nearly 14 months old and despite lots of training and recall work we just can't compete with pheasants, horses, cows, sheep, trailers and tractors to name but a few. It is particularly difficult at the moment because we are in the middle of the shooting season, so, although we do let Murphy off the lead we are always on red alert and if we know there are potential distractions he stays on the lead and we do lots of heel work. Our trainer has told us to make being on the lead fun by playing with him, but this also proves difficult because he is more interested in what is going on around him and hence he looks at us with complete disdain. It's as if he's saying "whatever".
Considering he follows us around at home and hates being left when we go out, it is a bit baffling why he completely ignores us when there is something better on offer.
If there is an answer I would love to know, but I think it is a case of persisting with the training and being sensible if you think they are at any risk.
We had a lovely walk this morning actually, where he was on the lead for part of it, then I put him on an extendable lead (probably cheating a bit!) and he also had a little run off the lead so it was good for both of us.
Certainly, everyday is an adventure!

Recall Problems

Hi,
Don't know if anyone else has this problem: Ziggy is now 8 months old and is delightful in the house and garden, however we simply cannot let her off the lead on a walk as she immediately takes off after any bird or game she sees or scents and will not come back to either a verbal command or the whistle. If there were no cars, sheep, pheasants, barbed wire or farmers we could let her run but since all those hazards exist she has to be protected. We spend a great deal of time training her and constantly reinforcing the basics as well as encouraging her to retrieve but are at a loss as to how to channel her incredibly high prey drive. Since she is very vocal and yips whenever there are birds around we don't know whether she will be acceptable on shoots in future. If anyone has any suggestions they would be gratefully received.

Tuesday 26 October 2010

Just a little update on our retrieving training, we're training outside in the garden now but still using the clicker at the moment and making sure I pick up some of the retrieves while Mazy sits. We only do about 5 retrieves in one session, then do a bit of heelwork and recall. Thank you all for your advice, I feel like we're getting somewhere now. Just need to keep at it.

Sunday 24 October 2010

Hi Louden,
There was recently a discussion on the workinghpr forum on the subject of training and how long does it go on for, and there was some lively opinions on whether training ever finishes with a hpr. A great deal depends on your definition of `training' and whether you distinguish it from `experience' and how this effects the work for which you trained. What a dog experiences in the field will always have a subtle effect on what you have trained, some good and some bad, as a handler you must always be aware of these effects and be ready to encourage or dissuade the dog from what it has learnt from experience so that the function of good work is maintained.
There are varying opinions on Large munsterlanders giving tongue on game, and whether it was bred for or if it is just the dog thinking through a situation. I have listened to both sides and I tend to be a little sceptical of it being a specific trait which was bred for, as it always seem to be those with noisy/excitable dogs that make this claim, and use it as an excuse for their dogs behaviour!
However, in finding a track and or large unretrievable game such as deer or boar it is a natural canine trait to give tongue, especially in cover as it holds the pack together or draws the pack to the kill. This is not the same has hunting for live, un-wounded quarry, where silence and stealth are required, any noise or vocalisation is counter productive to the hunting process. Giving tongue whilst hunting has always been regarded as a fault not only because of this but also it indicates an unsuitable temperament ( immaturity and excitability), I would add to this in that the dog will often give tongue out of frustration at not being understood by the handler in hunting situations.
This is not to say that these dogs should never give tongue in the right situation, and often they will do it without training, and it proves just how intelligent they are. My first bitch gave tongue ( one single `light' bark) on two occasions, both Field Trials, I instinctively knew what she was communicating on both occasions, she was asking for instructions as she was unsure. The first was in the KC's own FT where she found a fresh hare track on the edge of her beat and running back, I called her off, but the yip was commented on by the judge, who said "I'm not sure I heard that, but if I hear it again you will be out. " This would not have been that bad, except that a writer for the Shooting Times was covering the event, and this was later put into print!
The second occasion was when we were called up to retrieve a runner unfound by the preceding dog. We were in a wood and the judge pointed in an area up ahead and to the right. I released the dog with a HI lost, she went straight to the point of fall and then bared left and disappeared. I trusted my dog and stayed quiet, after a while, the judge retorted that if I did not get the dog back to the area he thought the bird was in he would pull me out. Then I heard the yip, she had found the bird, but as a strong runner she wanted confirmation that it was alright to pick it ( according to the gun later that day, it was sitting tight in a thickett of brambles) I repeated the HI lost and waited, The judge started figetting for his book and pencil and commented `You can't say I didn't warn you' at which point my dog appeared from around the corner with the bird! After a consultation with the gun as to if it was the correct bird, and with the second judge I was allowed to continue, neither had heard the yip, but we were out later that day anyway as we could not fill our card.
Peter

Saturday 23 October 2010

Great retrieving advice from everyone - still helpful even though Lula has been gundog for three seasons. I found I've had to keep up the training all the time, but it is great fun for both of us. Their pretty intelligent and do need constant stimulation if their to perform at their best. I guess it is a little easier if you are using them as working dogs with a specific task. But like horses out hunting the adrenaline levels rise sharply when their in the field!! Incredibly satisfying though and now gives me far more pleasure than the actual shooting.I would be interested to know whether originally the Munsterlander was trained to give notice of a find by barking. The theory being that they would hunt, let you know of a find, point, flush and, assuming you've been successful, retrieve the bird? I've also found it interesting to note that of the three that I've had each has a greater instinct in one or other of these. For example Monty was a great pointer, Lula definitely prefers to hunt and Tansy loves the retrieving element. One thing they all loved was - water!

Friday 22 October 2010

Hi Karen, there are no hard rules as to how much retrieving you do, little and often are usually better than one long session, as it allows the dog time to absorb what it has been doing between sessions, and it allows you to see what the dog has absorbed and learnt and then adjust the next session accordingly. A word of warning, ( again) just because the dog does something on numerous occasions does not necessarily mean its learnt the instruction to the behaviour, only when the dog does the right behaviour to your instruction in a `variety' of environments can you be sure that the association has been established.

Its very important to remember, that to a dog, especially a young dog, retrieving is a game! The onus is on you to maintain this perception, it must remain fun to do and you have to add variety, allowing the dog to move forward and feel good about its expanding achievements, whilst maintaining a competent ability. Never let the dog dwell on failure, if you go to far or too fast with training and you see the dog is not likely to succeed, stop the dog ( you have all trained the stop!) and do something basic which you can reward, in retrieving terms, even allowing the dog to see you go out and pick the retrieve yourself, whilst in the stop, can build respect from the dog towards you, in fact when retriever training at least one retrieve should not be given to the dog at each session, this adds value to the retrieve and improves steadiness.

Hi Penny, As I have mentioned before, retrieving is a game, first the game has to be learned. At this point I would just mention that dummies are not toys, they are items of yours that are highly valued. Part of the transition from a game to work involves this understanding and separation. A good natural retriever brings you IT's toys from which the game of retrieving begins. i.e. Handler takes toy and makes it move, requiring puppy to chase it, capture it ( kill it)
and bring it back to show what a good hunter it has been. Handler quiz's the puppy to what it has, puppy drops toy, handler gives puppy reward and makes it feel good and therefore is happy to do it again. The game has been established. In order for the game to continue the dog must get use to sharing its possessions whilst being confident that it will get them back, and at the same time bringing things ( non-toys) to the handler is always a worthwhile thing to do. Only when the puppy has this understanding would I consider starting with a dummy, as that's when rules start being introduced to the `game', and they must be mature enough to except them.
In your case I would go back to using a tennis ball or similar, play the game, after the first few times where you can fetch the ball if the pup does not bring it back, start, stop playing the game when the dog does not bring it in close, and walk away, from the pups point of view the game is not much fun on its own, and you may quickly find that it soon comes looking for you, and with any luck will be carrying the ball, in which case the game can continue, thus a valuable lesson has been learnt.
Peter

retrieving

I've just been reading all the blogs about finding, picking up and returning a dummy, it's very interesting and helpful.
I'm just starting the basics with Lola, but she's being very scatty and basically not concentrating, running around with the dummy and ignoring me when I tell her to bring it back, despite lots of praise ( and even a sweety sometimes..). She will pick up, but it's the coming back, holding and dropping that seem to much for her. Am I expecting too much - I think I probably am - she's only 8 months old. Please could I get some advice for the very basics from you more experienced folk !! Minden the 5 yr old, picked it all up pretty quickly when she was younger, with very informal training from my husband - Lola seems to be far more stubborn at the moment....

Tuesday 19 October 2010

I'm really pleased, Mazy has retrieved a thrown dummy and presented it to me several times in our hall way this morning. I know we're a long way from getting outside but still making progress. I'm still clicker training so she only gets the click when she delivers the dummy correctly. I don't want her to get bored, so I'm only doing 5-10 retrieves before stopping and doing three or four sessions through the day, is that right?

Monday 18 October 2010

Hi Karen, the retriever alley is a good tool to use in getting the dog to understand its OK to come in close and give up its prize, but you have to remember it is only a tool. The appropriate timing of praise I mentioned before is critical to the dog learning a good delivery, so ease off on the vocalisation on the return and wait until you have the retrieve in your hand. Be patient, don't make an issue out of any non delivery but wait until the dog gets it right ( giving these dogs the chance to work it out for themselves often gives better long term results) Again don't be in a hurry to take the retrieve from the dog, in a sense you want them to `show' you what they have/found and give them a sense of achievement before you take it from them. In the early stages of play retrieving with toys ( not Dummies) I always give the toy back to the dog and this builds a good foundation of trust. Sharon and Jim also made a good point in what posture you are in to receive the retrieve, this is very important as on the return the dog is reading your body language more than you appreciate, and what you think your saying is often not what the dog sees. A good trainer standing back and watching will pin point these mis-communications and put you right very quickly, so they are well worth seeking out. Many a `shy' retriever has been corrected by simply averting the handlers gaze away from the dog on its return, proof if any was needed how much importance dogs put on eye contact.
Peter
Karen, with only a few years experience at this I'm by far not qualified to give great advice! Peter's advice on taking it slowly is good.
As you mention she is running passed you, you may want to consider standing at a location where Mazy can't run passed you. I have found standing in locations like the 1.5m wide pathway at the side of my house with a gate at the end helped to draw the dogs towards me and eliminated a lot of the opportunities for them to get distracted on the way back with the dummy. Once it's working in the garden then progress to other locations but again stand in places where she can't run passed you eg up against fences. Also you crouching down for the dummy can help.
I never got on well with a long lead. I just got in a mess with it, and ended up flat on my face and winded too many times!
Another bit of advice is listen to experienced trainers and be careful with advice given from beginners like me :) So if Peter cautions you on any of what I've written listen to him and not me!
I hope you are enjoying the training.

Well done to Sandra and Dee with their bronze KC. I've not heard of starters obedience before; what do you have to do for that?
Well done Sandra and Dee Dee on getting your Bronze GC. Mazy got hers at Birmingham last year, we haven't attempted the Silver, although I did enter her in starters obedience this year and did well apart from the retrieve!!

Thank you Peter and Sandra for your advice. Mazy has no shortage of enthusiasm for marking, finding and picking up, it is the messing about on the way back that's the issue. I know it's probably my fault for not making the delivery rewarding enough, she will come back with the dummy after running by me and will sit near me on command and let me take the dummy then, but won't come straight to me. I've been praising on the way back from picking up. I know I talk to her too much and so probably confuse her as well.

I've been using a clicker indoors today and have got Mazy holding the dummy for a few seconds before I take it back, following the Trained Retrieve in the Gundog Club Grade One book. So I'm going to persevere with this method and see how we get on this week.
Hi Karen, Its all easy when you know how!!
I'm reading between the lines again, so apologies if I'm on the wrong track, you use the word `proper' in terms of delivery at the same time saying you are just starting gundog training classes, this is the same as trying to run before you can walk! The retrieve, whilst to look at is one complete exercise, is in fact several and a mixture of natural abilities and trained abilities, not all are working towards our desired `retrieve'.
The first priority in training for a good retrieving dog, is encouraging or creating a desire in the dog to find and fetch things, some do this naturally, some do it naturally until they discover `scent' and hunting! and some require well co-ordinated encouragement and enthusiasm from their handler to light the damp touch paper and keep it burning! ( Usually with HPR's its a mix and match of all three!)
I could go on and fill a book, as many have on retrieving and training methods, but to keep to your case, it is likely that by concentrating on the delivery you are giving conflicting signals to the dog once it has found and picked up the retrieve. ( A good game has become a chore to quickly). I see this even in experienced handlers in competition, their desire to get it right in front of a judge often creates confusion and tension in the dog. Some then make matters worse by `ordering' their dog in, and making the game even less worth playing.
There is the other common mistake of praising at the inappropriate part of the retrieve, and this changes as training progresses and depending on the enthusiasm of the dog, so is never easy to understand by the novice. For example in your description I would like to see if you praised on the find, or on the way back, both are right in the early stages of retriever training but should be dismissed with once the dog is doing these fine, praise and fuss should be restricted to ( after)delivery only. The dogs own self belief and desire should drive the dog on to do the retrieve up to the point of delivery, handing something of value over to you is about partnership and respect. Not all is lost if you neither have the respect or have made mistakes in the building of the partnership as there are various training methods and maneuvers to distract the dog from the reluctance to part with its prize, the sit present or walking to heel before taking the retrieve are just two, a good point in which both these methods emphasise, is don't always be in too much of a hurry to take/ snatch the retrieve from the dog, and always treat the retrieve with the respect/value that the DOG thinks it deserves.
Hope there is some enlightenment in the above.
Peter

Little Update

Dee Dee passed the KC Good Citizen Bronze last Saturday.

We had planned to do the silver as well if she passed the bronze, but it wasn't available on the day, so after frantically practising send aways all week we didn't get to do it.
It was advertised on the schedule, but gold & silver weren't available on the day.
I had entered her for the starters obedience class as well, but that was on at the same time as the Good Citizen, so we couldn't do that either.
They did have a fun agility ring set up though, and so both Narla and DD had a go at that and thoroughly enjoyed it. I was surprised Narla had remembered everything so well, as it is 4yrs since she did any agility, but she raced round the course, and shot through the tunnel. The jumps were set quite low, so I let DD have a go as well, she had to be coxed through the tunnel the first time but after that she did it on her own, we had a lovely time, and their were lots of lovely dogs their.
Karen I would try Mazy on a long line, that way you can draw her back into you if she is distracted.
Still use your clicker though when she returns. I used clicker training with Morgan (Springer) as she would not hold at the end of a retrieve, just dropped the article on return, but after some help from a trainer who did clicker, she started to hold the article and present it after a retrieve.
I think clicker training really sticks, once they have learned that way, Morgan is now 10 1/2 and I don't do obedience with her now, but she still remembers and does a really good retrieve and present, so stick with it, it is all in the timing. Let us know how you get on.

Sunday 17 October 2010

Retrieving help

Mazy and I have started going to gundog training and need some advice on how to get her to bring the dummy back to me properly. She is very enthusiastic and will retrieve the dummy every time, but gets easily distracted on the way back with it and I can't get her to deliver it straight to me.

I'm trying clicker training indoors and we're nearly there but wonder if this is the easiest method. Does anyone have any good ideas for training her to bring the dummy back to me?

Sunday 10 October 2010

Cosmos

Here is latest picture of Cosmos, third of Talleulah's 10 puppies, happily living in Connecticut. Absolutely fascinated by the fish and, astonishingly, not leaping in as we all know how much Munsters love the water!

Tuesday 28 September 2010

Milo

This handsome boy is Milo he lives in Somerset with big brother Merlin, who was bred by Judith.
Thanks Aly for the photo and also the lovely album of photos you have sent of Milo, it came in the post this morning, and the little captions on the photos tell the story of Milo's first year, it is simply gorgeous, thanks so much for doing it it must have taken you ages. I will certainly treasure it.

Monday 27 September 2010

Happy birthday


message from Kody- Very Happy 1st Birthday to my brothers and sisters....


Happy Birthday




Happy birthday to all Maier's brothers and sisters. This year certainly has flown by - Maier has grown into a lovely dog. She has a wonderful temperament and is a joy to be with. Max and Maier are best friends and adore each other - they have a mutual attraction to mud!! We have been camping quite alot this summer and Maier thoroughily enjoys our weekends away - they usually involve nice walks near lakes or the sea! She loves swimming and once in the water is reluctant to come out!

Well Done Dee Dee on your recent wins! Congratulations! Hope the next 12 months are just as good with loads more rosettes!

Attached photos of Maier as a puppy and last month in Anglesey.

Well done DeeDee







Izzy also says well done DeeDee for the show winnings.






I am also attching a pic of Gertie, Kes,Kody and Izzy in Devon helping me eat my ice cream with clotted cream on top!!! Did they love it.









HAPPY 1ST BIRTHDAY


Hi Everyone


Happy 1st Birthday to all Izzy' sisters and brothers.



Love


Izzy xxxxx

Dee Dee 1 year Old Today



I am not the best photographer and this was just a quip snap as she stopped to look at something, but you can see how much she has grown.

She is a lovely girl, very soft and loving, likes lots of cuddles, and so far comes back to the whistle every time and really fast !!! Now just trying to teach her that ploughing in to mum is not a good idea !!!


Hope some of the other owners will put up some pictures later.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ALL THE FULALUV PUPPIES.

ONE YEAR OLD TODAY !!!!!!!


WHERE HAS THE TIME GONE, THEY ARE ALL GROWING UP SO FAST.


A big thank you to all the owners who have kept in touch with me throughout this first year, it has been wonderful to receive the photos, updates and news about the puppies, and so much appreciated.
Dee Dee says thanks for the birthday cards, and sends her best wishes to her brothers and sisters.

Lots of love to them all, Genna, Izzy, Kody, Maier, Milo & Polo from sister Dee Dee, Mummy Narla, Dave and I and the rest of the Fulaluv Gang. xxxxxx

Saturday 25 September 2010

Hi Everyone



Dee Dee and I went to an evening show last week at Heywood and Radcliffe Canine Society.

We only went for experience and to support the show, it was very well attended as it is an all breeds show, it was standing room only, but I thought it would be good for Dee to be in different and crowed surroundings.

Well against all expectations she won AV Gundog puppy, and after all the other groups had been judged we went back in the ring again, and she was awarded Reserve Best Puppy In Show.

The red rosette is a normal size one, just shows what a whopper the RBPIS one is, size of a dinner plate.

There were photos of the presentation taken on the night, but I haven't received them yet, but when received from the secretary I will put one on here.

I did try and get one of Dee Dee and her awards, but as soon as I had the camera set up she either moved or wandered off !!


Sorry not to have posted for so long, but my computer has been playing up, mainly due to the hotmail changes and me trying to correct the problems which has only made matters worse, but it seems to be behaving itself at the moment, although I still can't send pictures via hotmail.


Kat I would just try and stay as relaxed as possible when Dodger grumbles, if you get anxious he will certainly pick up on it, not all rumblings are linked to aggression, and I would certainly try to distract him, but I wouldn't use food treats as otherwise you are rewarding unwanted behaviour.

I would talk things through with Ali as she has a lot of experience, and if you would like my telephone number Ali has it, I have done a number of behavioural courses and may be offer a few things to try, I was also a trainer for a number of years, so know how group dynamics in a class situation can cause problems, but a bit lengthy to explain on here.

Teenage angst

Hi all, I'm in need of some advice if possible. Dodger is fabulous, however over the last few weeks he's developed a habit of growling at other dogs. Not necessarily new dogs, some of the dogs he's growling at he's known since he was a little puppy and sees them regularly. All of them seem to be intact males.

He's very well socialised, so this change in behaviour is frustrating and confusing. At training last night he continued to growl the whole way through the class, on and off, as soon as another dog came near him or started to do a training exercise - no treat would distract him, even liver treats which are normally his favourites! He doesn't do anything other than growl at them, the occasional bark if they're further away, but it's still not good.

I've had suggestions from people, but none of these people have Munsterlanders - so I'm hoping you collectively will be able to guide us.

At home he is perfect, no issues at all. It's also only been the last few weeks that this behaviour has become apparent. He's told off each time he does it, and quickly stops - will then even play with the dog he was growling at!

He's still intact at the moment as we wanted to wait for him to mature as much as possible before getting him neutered, but don't know whether this behaviour is due to his hormones and whether getting him done will help to resolve this or not.

Suggestions that have been offered are that he's being protective, or that he's asserting him position in training as there's lots of new younger dogs, that he spends a lot of time with other dogs and wants more time on his own, it's his hormones.... Not sure whether any, some or all of these are correct.

Any tips, suggestions, help willingly accepted. Thanks in advance.

Monday 20 September 2010

A long over due Hello!

Hello everyone, I am sorry for not being around on here for so long, life is very busy for us at the moment and not going to shows this year seems to have given so much more time that we are just busier than ever. Still having to go to the hospital far too often too, please remember even though I am not on here as much if needed I am always at the end of the phone, so shout if you want me.
The Blitzan family have been enjoying the lovely sunny weather, especially recently, no rain as yet, just sunny sky's and much cooler, makes it much more fun for the dogs, now it's cooler and more fun for me with it being dry, they come home clean!!!
Well done to all who have been winning, Karen and Mazy there's no stopping you, winning Post Grad you will soon be up into Limit, well done, also to Kathy and Gertie, I hope her foot has healed, and to Keith and Tess, Carol and Jasper, Sandra and the fulaluv gang, we are proud of all our family and extended family. Not forgetting Tracy and Blue in Australia who have been out winning CC's and Best dogs and all sorts.

Diva is fit and well and enjoying working with Andrew, she is such a hairy girl now too.
Summer and Zeta, both cereal diggers!!!
Here comes the young boy, so handsome and such a clown but look at the colour of that tongue!!
Tetra is in the middle of a phantom, and is only just growing back her coat after a massive moult, pretty as ever though.
Darcy maybe sitting still but he is still avidly watching the birds.
Watching intently for where her tennis ball is headed. She really is tennis ball mad and spends a lot of her time finding her balls which we hide all over the place.

My boy Logi, enjoying a roll in the early morning wet grass.
Breeze Full speed ahead
Summer
Baby Bree is growing up, I don't think I have ever had such a good dog for her recall and obedience, still time for her to rebel but hey I am loving it for now. She put up a partridge earlier and it just escaped and yesterday she put up a deer which was hiding in our vegetable patch, I was so impressed one call and she stopped and returned, long may it last!!!
Bree again
Summer and Zeta
This is when Bree found the partridge
Bree having returned

Anyway that's most of the family, just missing Maddie and Prima, which I will try and rectify later, those two tend to hunt the hedgerows so it's hard to get nice photo's of those two.
Have fun with your dogs everyone, and give me a shout if you need me.

Monday 13 September 2010

Thank you all. We're both very tired today, this showing lark is hard work. Yes Kathy, we hope to be at Darlington, we have missed you and Gerttie at the last couple of shows. We could be even braving staying in a tent Saturday night, we haven't done that yet this year, Mazy's grown a lot since the last time we shared a tent, so could be interesting!!

well done

Well done to Karen & Mazy for 1st PGB at Richmond. Gertie should have been there but she cut one of her pads in a very awkward place & quite badly a couple of weeks ago , which is taking its time to heal, so we're HOPING to get to Darlington on Sunday. Are you going Karen?
Well done Karen and Mazy and a nice photo of you both together.

Troy is looking well Pauline. We were at a dog show at Malvern a month or so ago, it looked like a lovely place but unfortunately we didn't see much of it!

Happy first birthday to all the pups. We had Louis first birthday a week ago too; time really does fly in!

Karen and Mazy

Well done to you both. Lovely picture too x

Sunday 12 September 2010

Well done Karen and Mazy.

My little Blitzan Treasure!!

You wouldn't believe this was the same dog that was so naughty at Richmond Champ Show last year. Today we came 1st in the PGB class. Thank you Mazy!!

Missed you today Ali, hope you're OK!!

Hi all

Sorry i have not written on here for a while. i have been reading it when i can. Lovely pics on here. i been so busy now that i have started a new college course.
Ali i hope your foot is better

Monday 6 September 2010

I have been sent this link, if you have afew 100 hours to spare!!! It,s all the Crufts catalogues dating back to 1886, makes good reading if you have time http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/3158




























Hi everyone, How is the foot Ali hope you are up and about now. Sorry you couldnt make it to meet us Juditrh really looking forward to you spending time with Troy hope Skye will soon be better some people have no thought about animals leaving barbed wire about it could have been really bad. Anyway we had a lovely holiday apart from the weather in Devon Troy was a star as usual we had lovely walks in malvern really dog friendly found a lovely pub to stay in just across the road from the hills. Here are just a few pictures to give you the idea of space and freedom. We climbed every hill you can see Troy loved every minute we might even do it again next year.